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Thread: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

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    Default Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    Any one know what the compact flash needs to be formated or copied to get the control to recognize the PC card by mapps software. I am trying to upgrade a mapps control for a unit that went bad. I have the software however there is a special format the Mori uses to fomat the PC card. One thing to note when the card is inserted when formated properly into a laptop the disk does not show up as a removable drive. When I format a compact/PC card it will always show as a removable disk. The front end of mapps always says booting tiny os/2 so it could be something with that as well. Any recommendations or ideas to get this to work or copy a currently formated disk bit for bit to another PCMCIA card.

    I am thinking this is a long shot, but got to try. Appreciate your help.

    Thanks

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    Please, Read this information extract from another site !!!

    Daniel
    01-03-2009, 11:17 AM
    aimcnc Join Date: Jan 2009
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    Posts: 2
    memory card problem on robodrill
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi, i have just purchased a 1999 robodrill and the onecnc 4 axis package to machine some small 3d work, problem is the robodrill wont accept the flash card i use on the oi control on my lathe. The robodrill control is a 16im (b0f1), i have tried my 2G and bought a 512MB card but it wont read them or format them. Any help would be great. I have read about the smaller ata flash cards is it worth giving these a try? and where can i find one?
    Many thanks,

    Sam

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    #2 01-30-2009, 11:44 AM
    gwiz Join Date: Jan 2009
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    SRAM Cards
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Early i controls (16ia, 18ia) could only use SRAM cards. We were told by GEF that putting an ATA Flash in the original units could damage them because of the 3v/5v difference in the cards. I have tested some SRAM cards from Epson (can't get them anymore) and Vikant Corp. model SA5002-P. They work fine. The Sram is more expensive but they work.
    As far as the smaller flash card i believe you mean a Compact flash cards. you can use them with an adapter (ATA adapter) in a newer Fanuc control.
    Regards,

    gwiz
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    #3 03-19-2009, 09:00 AM
    shibi Join Date: Feb 2007
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    Originally Posted by aimcnc
    Hi, i have just purchased a 1999 robodrill and the onecnc 4 axis package to machine some small 3d work, problem is the robodrill wont accept the flash card i use on the oi control on my lathe. The robodrill control is a 16im (b0f1), i have tried my 2G and bought a 512MB card but it wont read them or format them. Any help would be great. I have read about the smaller ata flash cards is it worth giving these a try? and where can i find one?

    Many thanks,

    Sam

    Sam,

    We have a '00 Robodrill T14iAL and over the years we have tried all sorts of memory cards and mocrodrives on it. You'll need to use a smaller CompactFlash card (I assume you have a CF-PCMCIA adaptor). The Fanuc 16iM-A control can only handle cards up to 256MB. I have a small stash of new 128MB cards that I hide in a supply cabinet so that we'll always have them in case the flash card manufacturers stop making them.

    Interested? I'll sell you one for cheap.
    -S

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    #4 03-20-2009, 01:38 PM
    aimcnc Join Date: Jan 2009
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    Hi, thanks for the replies,
    Shibi, i bought a 128MB Scandisk CF but that didn't work either. After a lengthy conversation with GEF i found the very early 16i controls do indeed use Static RAM cards (spot on gwiz) Managed to find an 8MB pretech card for £180.
    Next problem........The new laptop i bought to run the cadcam software had an express card slot, not the pcmcia. So i had to buy a omnidrive SRAM reader/writer (£350) then had problems running it with vista. Nightmare.
    Sods law the first 3D program was 9.5MB
    After all this i found my robodrill has the remote option (i was told it didn't!!!!) so i can just run it from my old dnc software.
    Suppose you live and learn, just wish my mistakes weren't so expensive!
    Last edited by Petro; 06-08-09 at 11:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCmach View Post
    Any one know what the compact flash needs to be formated or copied to get the control to recognize the PC card by mapps software. I am trying to upgrade a mapps control for a unit that went bad. I have the software however there is a special format the Mori uses to fomat the PC card. One thing to note when the card is inserted when formated properly into a laptop the disk does not show up as a removable drive. When I format a compact/PC card it will always show as a removable disk. The front end of mapps always says booting tiny os/2 so it could be something with that as well. Any recommendations or ideas to get this to work or copy a currently formated disk bit for bit to another PCMCIA card.

    I am thinking this is a long shot, but got to try. Appreciate your help.

    Thanks

    Mori Seiki's MAPPS front end is PC based and card compatibility is different than Fanuc controls.

    I have made a MAPPS update card but it was not easy. Most of my testing was on MAPPS II and MAPPS III hardware that used Windows XPE as the O/S but the Mori Cards from the MAPPS I days were later used for MAPPS II and now MAPPS III so the format stayed the same.

    The first requirment is that the disk is marked "Fixed Disk" this is because the O/S actually loads from the card during the update process and the O/S will not run from a removable device. To accomplish marking the card as fixed it is best to purchase an industrial CF card that has been marked fixed by the manufacture. I was able to mark a sandisk fixed but there are only one series that this can be done to using a dos based utility and when I was done it was only compatible with the MAPPS III and Fanuc PFU hardware.

    Eventually I purchased some cards from Hagiwara Syscom that were already marked as fixed disk and they work on all MAPPS target machines. These were Toshiba cards (the same ones Mori uses in their controls) But unfortunately Hagiwara Syscom has since discontinued these.

    The next challange was to format these cards. They must be formatted FAT but have to be formatted on the target machine. There are some differences in the way the bios in the MAPPS hardware access the drive (CF card) so the drive must be formatted on that hardware in order for it to work correctly. To do this I inserted the CF card in slot 0 (back of control) and booted from a usb floppy drive, this was MAPPS III hardware I don't remember if MAPPS I hardware has USB. I then format from the disk and also diskpart. Diskpart was required to run Windows XPE from a FAT partition.

    After I had a CF card marked as fixed and formatted it using the target hardware I copied the MAPPS update files from the .zip file to the card respecting directory stucture and I now have a a woking MAPPS update card. From there on I have made an image of the working card and just apply the image to any new cards I make.

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    Default Mori Mapps II Mapps III

    Hi Chap,

    Wow thanks for the info! Never thought I would find anyone that would have taken on this project themselves to accomplished this. From what I heard, someone said that Mapps1 is formatted different then Mapps II/III as you have said as well as the file directory content/structure from what I remember. Mapps I is one folder with the version number and MappsII/III has many folders. I also noticed that as well about the fixed verses removable disk. I actually just purchased a compact flash to IDE adapter yesterday and waiting delivery to try to format it like a hard fixed disk so it does not show up as a removable disk. Not sure if this will work, but I was going to try it. Then my thought was to try a ghost image on a mapps card and image it to another to duplicate the format which it sounds like you did something similar. Think this would work to make it fixed disk? However its only a Mapps-I card I still need to find a Mapps II and III card to do the same if it works.

    One thing I noticed in the backup files from a formatted MappII or Mapps III (don’t remember which one I have) but there is an OS2 Folder that has a command FFormat2.exe that I think may be a special format command that might format the card. However I tried running in in DOS on windows 98, XP, and Ubuntu to try and execute the file with no luck. Is there a mock system I wonder with Windows XPE that this may run on or a virtual windows XPE that I could format the card? I know Mori somehow does it through there computers.

    Mapps I does not have USB. How did you boot from USB Drive? What program did you use to access the proper commands? Not sure if I will go that far. I am very computer literate and love tinkering with computers and such but I would hate to mess up a machine trying it.

    I would like to figure it out, but it might be over my head and might not be worth the risk. I don’t suppose you would still have the images of the cards that you might want to part with? If not who knows maybe I'll eventually get it.

    Thanks for the reply

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    Sorry for the delay in responding to you.

    It look like you are on the right track. If you use drive imiging software like ghost (I use winhex under windows) you will copy the correct format from the original MAPPS card to your new one. This way you will not have to worry about formatting it on the MAPPS hardware. This is how I do it.

    The only area you may have a problem is setting a CF to report it is a fixed disk. The CF card must be set as fixed disk in it's attribute memory. This area of memory is only accessible to the OEM. There is no publicly available software to do this and if there were it would be specific to the flash controller in the card. That being said there is a utility Sandisk used to supply to OEMs to change the fixed disk word in the attribute memory but it is only for CF cards with the Athens chipset (Sandisk Ultra II SDCFH-....). I had one of these cards and was successful setting it to fixed but it would only work on MAPPS III hardware, on MAPPS II windows would not boot properly from it. You will need to get a CF card already set as fixed by the manufacture and as there is certainly going to be compatibility issues I would recommend a Toshiba THNCF512MBA as this is the same one used by Mori in MAPPS controls.

    If you do get a CF card marked as fixed just create and image of your current MAPPS card and apply the image to the new one, this is how I do it now. I can help you with an image of a MAPPS II/III card when the time comes.

    Just on a side note, do you work for the Mori Seiki distributer in Illinois?
    Last edited by Chap; 04-09-09 at 12:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    Posted before but for some reason it did not show up so here it is again.
    No problem for the delay, we all have things going on.
    Yea I spent a lot of research looking at how to make my compact flash cards fixed disk and found the dcandisk utility that they discontinued but did not work. I am going through some of my docs on the flash cards for compatibility.

    I have one mapps 1 disk that I tested out the other day on a machine and worked great. Tried copying and tried booting into dos and removing the disk and sticking mine into the control but it does not seem to like the idea of removing a fixed disk which I figured. So I am going to buy one to save the hassle and begin some more testing. The one thing I could not do with ghost is get it to recognize my mapps 1 card. Probably driver related so I will have to check into that or try winhex and see how that works.

    For the side note: I do not work for any of the distributers otherwise I am sure I could get the mapps cards to figure it out and just image them. I actually use to work for a distibutor for a number of years until about 5 years ago. Had the chance to do some upgrades and restoration when mapps I and II came out and know the Mori seiki machines very well.

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    Placed the order for 2 compact flash cards 128mb and 512mb that supports "fixed-disk" mode with DMA enabled. So I hope either one will work. I also purchased winhex to make sure I get a bit by bit copy. The only question I wonder is what the maximum capacity these controls will take for all the mapps versions. It appears files for Mapps II/mapps 2 is around 368 megabites. Mapps 1 is less then 128mb. Not sure what mapps III 3 is at this point.
    Waiting delivery will post when I find out more.

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    MAPPS II and III are just shy of 400Mb. Your 512Mb card will work just fine. As for the difference between MAPPS II and III, there is only hardware differences. MAPPS III hardware has a faster CPU 1600Mz, I believe and more memory. Other then that the software is identical and loaded from the same card.

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    Mapps 1 card has been tested and all works great. Now waiting for a machine to try a Mapps II card on.

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    So i've been working on a MSG-501 Mapps III control (on an NH5000 horiz) and trying to learn about how it all works

    one thing of note, if you have an os2 folder is probably not running windows xpe... my mapps3 machine at least is running os/2 ver 3.00 as the operating system...

    internal memory appears to be probably 64mb... maybe 48mb... c: drive is about 32mb or so, with about 24mb making up the os/2 and mapps software... then there is a d:\ partition of 16mb which is for internal memory dnc (instead of the lcd-flash memory slot)

    i wrote some Rexx batch files and interface/menu for FTP file transfering to the internal memory or external memory card, and changed the boot up procedure to go to a pure fanuc interface (so it operates like my other 18i's, mapps interface appears useless except for conversational programming, which is trumped by our cad/cam system, and removed the fanuc's ability to dnc from memory card, or use ethernet data transfer), with the option to escape out to the mapps interface or my mock-data-server interface...

    if anyone is interested to see how it works i can better explain, or you can get an idea by reading this thread:
    cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97537]Mori Seiki MSG-501 (Fanuc 18i-MB) Interfacing (ethernet and DPRNT)

    i'm still wondering how to load the basic/sram screen (which is acheived with the right two softkeys on a normal fanuc i but i don't know how on this IPL mode setup), and where the mapp3 hard drive (flash memory) actually is cuz i cant find it inside the control, without taking it apart, i hope its a card and not a chip cuz i want to put in a bigger one)... once its located and removed i can attempt to backup via pc (which i want to do anyway)

    - gwarble

    edit: also, is there software you are using to reload the os from the external memory card, or does your machine have an internal pcmcia flash memory that has a special format... for me it appears that c:, d: drives are FAT formatted, as well as my external compact flash cards... without any problems transfering files/etc.... and fyi, fformat2.exe is a normal os2 program, nothing mori seiki specific... but the special format you guys are talking about might not apply to an os/2 machine (just xpe maybe) my machine is from 2002

    Edit again: here's the drive info (with my notes in parens), Mori nh5000 hmc, msg-501 control running os/2 ver3.00 over fanuc 18i-MB:
    Drive Free Total Current Directory
    C: 4904 K 31.97 M C:\GOP3 (main boot drive, housing os/2 and mori's gop3 spec, including mapps3)
    D: 14.61 M 14.71 M D:\ (extra storage drive, for dnc (ie fanuc i/o channel4 can use internal drive d: or external memory card (e)
    E: 15.14 M 15.14 M E:\ (lcd-mounted pcmcia slot/16mb compact flash card)
    G: 47 K 46.50 K G:\ (swap partition from what i can tell, looks like its not being used)
    Last edited by gwarble; 03-14-10 at 10:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    The flash card is behind the LCD panel. there is a small cover to protect it.
    it is easy to access. on this card is C and D drive.
    you can pull it out just like pull a pc card out from your notebook.
    you can put this card in the front Pcmcia slot to boot the machine.

    to access the IPL mode, it depend on your keyboard on the panel.
    is there a mouse on your panel?

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    for my msg-501 mappsiii nh5000 machine? i'll look for the internal pcmcia card tomorrow, do you know if booting to the front pcmcia slot has precedence or the internal if i had two boot devices? just thinking i should make a backup and make another "testing" one in case i want to get into anything dangerous...

    so far i'm loving my switch to pure fanuc mode and never go back to mapps... enjoy full network and dnc/memory card capability, and the interface 18i we are all used to... also cool to DNC from the inernal D: drive...


    my keyboard is ONGP style, no mouse... mapped keys

    i've read there's a rotary switch inside yo ucan use but i would prefer a keyboard method like my other 18i's

    thanks for the info!
    - gwarble

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    when you look at the display unit strait from the back, on the top there is a screw, just lose it, then the metal cover can be lifted off.
    the CF card can be seen, there is a button on its side, just like laptop, push it and the card will pop out.
    this card holding all the information except BIOS.
    it is marked as fixed disk.C and D
    you can make a bit-by-bit backup copy.
    this card or its backup copy can boot the PC from PCMCIA slot.
    you can put the internal card back into the internal slot and can still boot the PC from the outside.
    I don't how to upload file here. you can PM me. and I can send the relative document to you by email.

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    so i pulled out the 48meg ata flash PCMCIA card... do you have a recommended copy procedure? i'd like to copy the C boot partition to a new compact flash card, 512mb or more, and make a new D partition for DNCing that takes up the rest (ie >450mb)


    think thats an ok idea? got a good way to copy without windows writing to the disc when i backup? (i want to keep the original unchanged)

    thanks
    - gwarble

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps PCMCIA(compact flash) format to reload Mapps unit

    I want to make a back up of the Mapps II Card on my 3 Mori NL'S
    a ghost image.

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    Default Re: Mori Mapps II Mapps III

    [QUOTE=Petro;2431]Hi Chap,

    Wow thanks for the info! Never thought I would find anyone that would have taken on this project themselves to accomplished this. From what I heard, someone said that Mapps1 is formatted different then Mapps II/III as you have said as well as the file directory content/structure from what I remember. Mapps I is one folder with the version number and MappsII/III has many folders. I also noticed that as well about the fixed verses removable disk. I actually just purchased a compact flash to IDE adapter yesterday and waiting delivery to try to format it like a hard fixed disk so it does not show up as a removable disk. Not sure if this will work, but I was going to try it. Then my thought was to try a ghost image on a mapps card and image it to another to duplicate the format which it sounds like you did something similar. Think this would work to make it fixed disk? However its only a Mapps-I card I still need to find a Mapps II and III card to do the same if it works.

    One thing I noticed in the backup files from a formatted MappII or Mapps III (don

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