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Thread: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

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    Default Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Hello,

    I have been trying off and on for about a week to restore the programming to a Sinumerik 810 in our factory. The 810 is controlling a Galileo 320 spinning machine that we purchased second-hand nearly 10 years ago.

    Every so often, the memory on the Sinumerik is wiped either by loss of power, or the backup batteries being dead. In the past, we would hire Siemens to reconfigure the machine and/or replace parts as needed.

    During the last servicing, some hardware was swapped before the problem was eventually fixed which turned out to be a software issue. The Siemens tech suggested that we shouldn't pay for the service or parts (I don't personally recall which one). We took his advice and are now in a billing dispute with Siemens, so we can't turn to them at the moment.

    I am the most technical person in the building, so fixing the Sinumerik has fallen in my lap. While I'm comfortable in a DOS or *nix command line and have a reasonably good understanding of serial communications, I cannot get PCIN to talk with the Sinumerik. Aside from that, I'm not even sure we have all the files required to get the job done.

    The version of PCIN that I found on some floppies is 3.0 which defaults to German. It's easy enough to fix that, but the Sinumerik itself defaults to Italian. The directions I have for clearing the memory of the Sinumerik assume it's displaying english or german. This confusing dual language barrier causes me the most grief, but I think I was able to clear the memory before attempting to send the TEA1 file. However, PCIN and the Sinumerik are never able to establish communication.

    I have attached the documentation for reloading the machine's memory. Please note that this is the only documentation I have on the machine. I know, it's pretty sad that this is the only paperwork we have for our machinery that costs hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    About a year ago, I made an image of a floppy disk at the request of a visiting Siemens tech. He said that this was all we needed to restore the memory in the future, and we should keep it safe. I still have the image and I'm posting its list of contents below. Please note, that to my knowledge, the tech did not leave us with a copy of PCIN or any better in instructions for reloading the memory.
    Code:
    05/11/1998  08:01 PM            93,880 COMMAND.COM
    07/20/1995  08:23 AM             1,023 MPF
    05/20/1994  12:12 PM               830 PCA
    11/17/1995  01:10 PM             5,924 PCP
    11/17/1995  01:16 PM               166 README
    07/20/1995  09:15 AM             1,088 SEA
    07/20/1995  09:15 AM            18,147 TEA1
    05/13/1995  12:42 PM               472 TEA2
    The contents of the README file are below
    Code:
    Times Square Lighting Co., Inc.
    Industrial Park Rt.9W
    Stony Point, N.Y. 10980
    Attn: Dean
    
    The file I generated for you is PCP.
    
    D.Trotter/Siemens 05/05/94
    I don't know if that sentence is meaningful to anyone. Anyway, I'm more than willing to continue hacking on this thing if someone can kindly provide some guidance. I'm also willing to hire someone to take care of this and maybe give me a little tutorial on how to handle this in the future.

    Another concern is that we don't know why the memory of the Sinumerik was wiped this time around. The backup batteries are fresh and the power did not seem to have gone out. There could be a hardware fault, but nobody here is qualified to diagnose that. I can take photos of the Sinumerik and its various components if requested, and any help is greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    -Rob
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SIN 810 Memory Loss Reloading.pdf  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    I think I can help you, have done the process several times for several machines.

    Don't worry about PCIN been in another language, there is another way of loading the TEA's.

    Do you know the version of the 810, GA1, GA2 or GA3?

    Is it as the one in the attached pictures?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 810 front.JPG   810 back.JPG  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Thanks for helping!

    I'm not sure where to find the model number listed on the actual device, but mine is similar looking... it just has some more buttons and a different case color.

    I have attached photos to this post.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 810_front.jpg   810_rear.jpg  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    The version number appears in the screen when you power it on, but not always, specially if it's dying (just kidding), it looks to me like the GA3 version.

    In order to fix it we'll need the following:

    1.- Perform an "overall reset", that is: Clear everything, format everything and reload everything.

    2.- PLC program file: Inside this CNC there is a PLC and you must have a program for it.

    3.- Parameter file: Files TEA, SEA, RPA, ZOA, TOA, etc.

    4.- Siemens programmer (PG) or generic laptop with Siemens Simatic S5 software installed, it must have a serial com port (Any older laptop will do).

    5.- DB9 to DB25 communication cable.

    As we still don't know if your diskette has all the needed data, I guess you will have to send me a copy of it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCF0351.jpg  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinumeriko View Post
    1.- Perform an "overall reset", that is: Clear everything, format everything and reload everything.
    In order to do this, I may need to know what keystrokes to hit. The machine is displaying abbreviated Italian and it's impossible to follow some of the english/german instructions I have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinumeriko View Post
    2.- PLC program file: Inside this CNC there is a PLC and you must have a program for it.
    I've attached a zip file of all the floppies I have for this machine. The directories are named according to what was written on the floppies (or what I could make out). Some are from a very long time ago and my not be relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinumeriko View Post
    3.- Parameter file: Files TEA, SEA, RPA, ZOA, TOA, etc.
    Hopefully we can get by with what I attached.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinumeriko View Post
    4.- Siemens programmer (PG) or generic laptop with Siemens Simatic S5 software installed, it must have a serial com port (Any older laptop will do).
    I have a IBM Thinkpad with DB9 serial port. I have a generic DB9 to DB25 cable running between the laptop and the port on the front of the Sinumerik. I don't have Simatic S5 software and this is my first time hearing of it. Interestingly, one of our floppies was labeled "S5 version machine data."
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    I guess that when the Siemens techs visited you they did the whole process but they didn't tell you, anyway, this is not an impossible mission, I know we can work it out.

    Perhaps I can guide you thru a video conference (using another computer).

    About the laptop, just make sure it runs on DOS, that is the platform for the old S5 software.

    I will be out for about 2 hours and get back to you.

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Sounds great!

    802.11 reaches out by the machine, so we can definitely get a conference going with skype or some such.

    The laptop currently out there is running XP which I assume isn't the best choice for what we're about to do. I may not be able to get a pure DOS environment set up today, but I can almost certainly get Windows 98 on there which is probably a step in the right direction.

    I'll PM you with my contact details...

    EDIT: Well, I'm not allowed to send a PM due to low post count. Let me know later what contact info you want and I can get it to you... or email me at robjr {at} tslight [dot] com.
    Last edited by robricc; 08-27-09 at 10:40 AM. Reason: can't send PMs

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    I'm back, first let me review the zip file you uploaded, in order to see if we got all the machine data that's needed.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Between Sinumeriks.jpg  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    I have reviewed your files, this is what I've found:

    1.- "Contents of floppy referenced in 1st post".

    Comments: This disk contains (hopefully) all the machine data (parameter) needed.

    2.- "Galleleo 320 inch CD set".

    Comments: This disk contains an special file wich is used to display the alarms in the screen, with a brief description.

    Example:

    N6000=ALARM DETECTED
    N6001=SPINDLE SPEED PROG. TOO HIGH
    N6007=REPLACE BATTERY
    N6015=TOOL NOT FOUND
    N6017=TOOL NOT IN SELECTED POSITION
    N7000=MACHINE MUST BE ZEROED
    N7001=!!WARNING!! OVERLOAD TRIPPED
    N7002=SPINDLE NOT AT SET SPEED
    N7003=SPINDLE SPEED MUST BE SET
    N7014=TOOL NOT LOCKED
    N7004=!!WARNING!! SAFETY DOOR OPEN
    N7007=Z- AXIS LIMIT BYPASSED
    N7008=Z+ AXIS LIMIT BYPASSED
    N7011=!!WARNING!! POWER SUPPLY HAS FAILED
    N7012=!!WARNING!! AXIS MODULES HAVE FAILED
    N7013=!!WARNING!! SPINDLE MODULES HAVE FAILED
    N7015=SLIDE 1 NOT IN POSITION
    N7016=TAILSTOCK NOT IN POSITION
    N7017=SHEET SUPPORT NOT IN POSITION
    N7018=HORIZONTAL SLIDE NOT IN POSITION
    N7060=*READY TO RECORD ON CHANNEL 1*
    N7061=*READY TO RECORD ON CHANNEL 2*
    N7062=*HAND CONTROL ACTIVE*
    N7063=*RECORDING MOVEMENTS*


    3.- "Galleleo 320 set up parameters".

    Comments: This disk contains your (again, hopefully) complete S5 plc program.


    4.- "Galleleo 320 set up parameters S5 version machine data".

    Comments: This disk contains a combination of disks 1,2 & 3.


    5.- "PC IN Download 8-7-2007".

    Comments: This disk contains the PCIN software.

    By the way, is your machine brand Galleleo?

    I guess the right name should be Galileo, honoring Italian professor Galileo Galilei.
    (just a tought).

    Right now I am going to check if your plc program is ok, using the Simatic S5 software to open it.

    Can you upoad more pictures of your machine?

    Inside of the electric cabinet, spindle motor, spindle drive, servomotors, servodrives, encoders, etc.?
    Last edited by Sinumeriko; 08-27-09 at 01:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    If you can get a lap/desktop near the machine with Windows 98 and a DB9 serial port, that would be fine.

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinumeriko View Post
    By the way, is your machine brand Galleleo?

    I guess the right name should be Galileo, honoring Italian professor Galileo Galilei.
    (just a tought).
    Yes, it is Galileo. I spelled it right in the first post, but maybe I had a brain fart when making those folders. I probably spelled it wrong once, then just kept copying the wrong thing down the line... duh.

    Anyway, I have attached a bunch of pics below. I hope they're useful because I am not sure of the names of some of these parts.

    There is a photo of a segmented LED numeral in the electrical panel. Earlier in the week, the only lit segments were the top most and the top right. It looked odd as it didn't actually form a number or letter. Now it's just all unlit.

    Also, when booting, I was able to see that the machine was a GA3.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails diagnostic-mode.jpg   galileo-320.jpg   electrical-panel.jpg   led.jpg   machinery1.jpg   machinery2.jpg   machinery3.jpg   machinery4.jpg   machinery5.jpg  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Ok, I will need a more detailed pictures of the components inside the electric cabinet, as follows:

    1.-That big white assembly that has 3 components, look for the Siemens numbers, there should be one starting with a 6, for example: 6FC5411-0AA00-0AA0, also if it has some small numbered dials, please take note or close-up pictures of those.

    2.-That grey component located at the right of the above mentioned, I guess that is your I/O card, but need to make sure if it has some main green/red leds and what is their status, also any siemens code.

    3.- The dark grey component below the above mentioned, look also for a Siemens code, that seems to be another plc but from the Simatic S7 family?

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinumeriko View Post
    1.-That big white assembly that has 3 components, look for the Siemens numbers, there should be one starting with a 6, for example: 6FC5411-0AA00-0AA0, also if it has some small numbered dials, please take note or close-up pictures of those.
    That thing is called a Simodrive 611. All three modules have a different part number. They are, from left to right:
    6SN1145-1BA00-0BA0
    6SN1135-1BA13-0DA0
    6SN1130-1AA11-0AA0

    The first image below is me pushing in the circuit that turns on this module(s) with a pen. The Sinumerik will no longer boot into a state other than the diagnostic mode.

    The second image below is of the LEDs on this module. Only the middle-left green one is lit, but keep in mind I am forcing this thing on manually.

    Third image is of the strange segmented LED display I mentioned earlier.

    Fourth image is the small dials you mentioned, though they are not numbered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinumeriko View Post
    2.-That grey component located at the right of the above mentioned, I guess that is your I/O card, but need to make sure if it has some main green/red leds and what is their status, also any siemens code.
    It's labeled MPG-Module I/O-Module
    I cannot see any lights on this device, nor do I see any part number of any kind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinumeriko View Post
    3.- The dark grey component below the above mentioned, look also for a Siemens code, that seems to be another plc but from the Simatic S7 family?
    This is called a SITOP Power 20. Siemens part # 6EP1436-1SH013
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails pen.jpg   LEDs.jpg   segment_digit.jpg   dials.jpg   MPG-Module.jpg   SITOP.jpg  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Ok, I got it, but first of all let's not pen-push that 3-phase contactor, it is supposed to close by itself when the machine is ready.

    The Simodrive 611 are your drives and their power supply, here I still need to know how many axe(s) and spindle(s) your machine phisically has.

    The grey component to the right is your I/O board.

    The grey lower component is your 24vdc power supply.

    I have opened your plc program and am afraid we are missing a very important part of it, I guess this program should have a main block called PB1, and I can´t find it anywhere, I will look for it once again, but you should also look for it in the place where the machine is, perhaps it is into another diskette or sometimes it can even exist as a printed document, wich we could type again using S5. Altough I am not 100% sure that we are missing that part of your program, you should start asking around, every piece of information is very important.

    From the attached pictures, there is one that says "directory", well, the missing PB1 should be listed there, among the FB's and all others. All other pictures are from the other valid blocks listed there, some of them show phrases in Italian language.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCF0384.jpg   DSCF0385.jpg   DSCF0386.jpg   DSCF0387.jpg   DSCF0388.jpg   DSCF0389.jpg   DSCF0390.jpg   DSCF0391.jpg   DSCF0392.jpg  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    OK, I will try and get more info tomorrow and look for anything that references PB1.

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    Talking Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    No, please forget about PB1, I missed something obvious, if PB1 is not listed into OB1 or OB2 is because, in this case, that block was never even created by the machine tool builder. Your whole movement program resides in blocks FB200, FB201 and FB202.

    You can check that out in the following pictures.

    So far we have done only about 20% of the job, tomorrow will come the best part and your patience skills will be tested.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCF0394.jpg   DSCF0397.jpg  
    Last edited by Sinumeriko; 08-27-09 at 04:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    OK, good to hear.

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Hello,

    The comm cable that you mentioned before, is it the one that the Siemens techs used when they visited you, or is just a cable that you have and that you think we can use?

    When they visited you, they would always connect at the Sinumerik front db25 female connector, never at any of the two rear-located db25 male connectors?

    Did they bring a Siemens programmer with them or was it a regular laptop?

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    The cable is something I had around. It was probably used to connect to an external modem years ago. I can test what pins go to where with a multimeter if I have a diagram.

    From what we recall, the Siemens techs used a laptop to program the machine through the DB25 port up front.

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    I will give you a pin configuration for the cable we need, you can compare it with yours.

    Can you send PM's already?

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    I can't send a PM until I have 15 posts. I suppose I could just post 6 more times...

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Here are some photos of other machines in our factory.

    Strippit 1000xp
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0087.jpg  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    We also have an older Macintosh-based Strippit 1000
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0089.jpg  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    AccurPress
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0085.jpg  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    This one's probably good at removing fingers
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0086.jpg  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Automated powder paint line
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0091.jpg  
    Last edited by robricc; 08-28-09 at 05:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    I'm back,

    I once had the chance to fix an Strippit Siena, had little problems with the APC and APZ parameters on its Fanuc controller, and the McCintosh based one I also saw one but it was dead, and I think it still is.

    Good to hear you can send PM already, I will send you one with further instructions, but first, take a look at the drawing of the cable pinout, compare it with yours.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20090828_120425.jpg  

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Download the attached file, unzip it, there are 4 files inside, open them with Notepad and print them, have them ready and close to the machine, you should have 4 lists as in the picture, those are your machine parameters, I extracted them from your original files.

    You should also have them already unzipped into the diskette you are going to use to transfer into the Sinumerik.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSCF0398.jpg  
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    OK, my cable follows the first wiring scheme on this page. I guess I will have to stop by Radio Shack this weekend...

    Now I want to be sure I'm reading your drawing correctly.

    X on the DB9 side represents the ground on the connector body I presume?

    Also, the image at the bottom here shows a slightly different pinout. I think they may work interchangeably, but I obviously prefer to make this cable once.

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    Default Re: Siemens Sinumerik 810C (?) memory erased

    Well,

    The configuration I gave you I used it just last week and it worked perfectly for transferring the plc program into a Sinumerik similar to yours. The X on the DB9 side means the shield does not connect to anything on that end.

    If you are going to Radio Shack I would suggest you to buy 2 female DB9, 1 male DB25 and 1 female DB25 plus enough cable for two sets.

    Ask also for a DB25 female to DB25 male straight adapter, since we might need to connect the computer to one of the Sinumerik rear DB25 male connectors.

    And I will send you a PM in a short while.

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