Machine Build! FANUC Series 16 Model B

[gbowne1]

Well, here it is 2012 and I am working on the FANUC Series 16M Model B CNC control build. (One of 8 different controls I'm building for the 8 machines that I have in my shop)

I had to pick out one of the 3 main CPU boards, although I have 3 different ones that I could set up and install. I would like to use the A16B-3200-0190 FS16B main CPU board.

I'm finally getting to put together what I have of my Series 16. I also have two other different Opt. 2 boards. Most of these parts I do have, and some I have more than one part. I want to get the most out of my configuration, and plan on configuring it as a "16M".

I've been talking about this on the "zone" a little bit but haven't got much input.

There appears to be a lot of similarity from the 16, 18 and 21 especially between the A, B and C models. I couldn't figure out the difference between the A02B-0200-B50x version and the A02B-0120-B50x version. Which is which? My module rack is huge, apparently the biggest they offer.

I received my PSU.. A16B-1212-0871, which seems to be shared between lots of different FANUC CNC's, robot controls, etc.

I'm working on the parameter list so far working from the Parameter manual..

I also have not decided which Servos and Amplifiers to use. I was told that the A06B-6079-H101, H103, H105 and 106 are all very good amplifiers to use with the FANUC 16/18/21.

I also am working on the machine I/O for both the FANUC NA Operator Panel
44C741056-G01 for the Series 15 (also works with the 16) and for the machine itself so that the PMC and CNC can use it. It has the newer I/O Model A (A03B-0807-C001 10 Slot Rack with the AIF01A.

Interesting anyhow... Well, Here are the I/O modules on my 16M.

1 ea. A03B-0807-C011 AIF01A
1 ea. A03B-0807-C001 ABU10A
1 ea. A03B-0807-C103 AID16C
1 ea. A03B-0807-C104 AID16D
1 ea. A03B-0807-C107 AIA16G
1 ea. A03B-0807-C152 A0D08D
1 ea. A03B-0807-C154 A0D16D

I think that this will give me enough room for the I/O for the whole machine as these seem to be the standard I/O modules.

I need help with where to wire the honeywell limit switches for X and Y as well as the Bijur lube pumps. Can anyone with this setup take photos for me of where their limit for X and Y are wired?

Can anyone here help me with the ladder as well? My ladder guy took off and moved to a place not local to me, plus I was aware he does not do the 16/18/21 ladders.

[codyst]

Originally Posted by gbowne1

There appears to be a lot of similarity from the 16, 18 and 21 especially between the A, B and C models. I couldn't figure out the difference between the A02B-0200-B50x version and the A02B-0120-B50x version. Which is which? My module rack is huge, apparently the biggest they offer.

From my documentation and without the last digit of the part number it looks like the 0200 is a mill control part number, and the 0120 is a lathe control part number. That part number references the entire control system. (CPU, Drives, Motors, I/O, everything). The similarity in the 16/18/21 family is that they are are based on the same platform, as with the 30 family(30/31/32). Fanuc always releases the "highest powered" control first, then releases the "low power" models later. The 16 would be the most powerful of the 16/18/21 family, with the most axis control capability, the 18 with slightly less, and the 21 with even less axis count. A, B are control revisions, the i (although Fanuc claims it has other meanings) is when they made the change to Intel processors.

Originally Posted by gbowne1

I also am working on the machine I/O for both the FANUC NA Operator Panel
44C741056-G01 for the Series 15 (also works with the 16) and for the machine itself so that the PMC and CNC can use it. It has the newer I/O Model A (A03B-0807-C001 10 Slot Rack with the AIF01A.

What most people consider to be the "old" I/O cards (multi-point honda style connector) are still supported and sold as new product. Terminal I/O is the latest and greatest.

Originally Posted by gbowne1

Can anyone here help me with the ladder as well? My ladder guy took off and moved to a place not local to me, plus I was aware he does not do the 16/18/21 ladders.

If you have software I can provide examples of just about anything you would want to do.

[gbowne1]

From what I've seen, the 16 and 18 share similar hardware, but the only difference is in the CRT/MDI where it calls out a /T or /M after the part number. Although I have seen both the 16 and the 18 under both the A02B-0200 and the A02B-0120. The only other difference may bw the ROM software. More clarification is needed here.

I do not have the software for doing the ladders on the 16/18. But I am interested in anything you can provide. I only have software for the FANUC 90-30 PLC.

The FANUC CRT/MDI I was able to find was a A02B-0120-C051/MAR

I beleive the order # for the unit would be listed as a B503 as a 6 slot rack. I think that the PSU A16B-1212-0871 should be enough.

Do you think I have enough I/O with the modules I listedto complete the I/O chain? I have enough hardware and room in the cabinet to add a 2nd i/o plane.

[gbowne1]

From what I've seen, the 16 and 18 share similar hardware, but the only difference is in the CRT/MDI where it calls out a /T or /M after the part number. Although I have seen both the 16 and the 18 under both the A02B-0200 and the A02B-0120. The only other difference may bw the ROM software. More clarification is needed here.

I do not have the software for doing the ladders on the 16/18. But I am interested in anything you can provide. I only have software for the FANUC 90-30 PLC.

The FANUC CRT/MDI I was able to find was a A02B-0120-C051/MAR

I beleive the order # for the unit would be listed as a B503 as a 6 slot rack. I think that the PSU A16B-1212-0871 should be enough.

Do you think I have enough I/O with the modules I listedto complete the I/O chain? I have enough hardware and room in the cabinet to add a 2nd i/o plane.

[codyst]

I cant say for sure if it's enough because I don't know what all you're trying to control.

I'm guessing this is a mill build?

[gbowne1]

Yeah, a 3 axes milling machine with a 4th rotary axes (12" rotary table). Its a custom built machine similar to a leadwell MCV-550 or a Mori Seiki MV-Jr / MV45 or a Okuma howa 3VA.

I am thinking I will use three A06B-6079-H105 but the servos I'm not sure of.

[central fl cracker]

Originally Posted by gbowne1

Yeah, a 3 axes milling machine with a 4th rotary axes (12" rotary table). Its a custom built machine similar to a leadwell MCV-550 or a Mori Seiki MV-Jr / MV45 or a Okuma howa 3VA.

I am thinking I will use three A06B-6079-H105 but the servos I'm not sure of.

Out of curiosity what do you manufacture with all that machinery?

[gbowne1]

Well, I have 8 different CNC milling machines of this type, all custom made for me by an american manufacturer based on my specifications. I also have 2 CNC lathes. Just outgrew my home shop which has my manual machines which are still used. At least one of the CNC machines has a table that is a pretty decent size 13" x 52". They are all CAT40.

I manufacture a lot of parts out of 2024-T3, 7075-T6 and 6061-T6 aluminum and also 4130, 4140 and 4340 steel as well as 1018 steel. I also do some Nylon 6/6 and parts in ASTM D709 Lamintated Thermosetting Sheet (Phenolic) as well as in the Wear Resistant grades of Nylon.

I'll make pretty much anything that a 6" or 8" vise can hold as I just bought two new Kurt D675's and a Glacern. I don't do medical parts though.

I do precision drilling too in these materials.. with the biggest OD tolerance being 0.003".

Always looking for new work! Inquiries welcome.

[codyst]

Originally Posted by gbowne1

Yeah, a 3 axes milling machine with a 4th rotary axes (12" rotary table). Its a custom built machine similar to a leadwell MCV-550 or a Mori Seiki MV-Jr / MV45 or a Okuma howa 3VA.

I am thinking I will use three A06B-6079-H105 but the servos I'm not sure of.

Ok to give a small light into your IO questions:

Servos: Absolute or Incremental? If INC-home switches, OT switches If ABS OT Switches? or Software OT?
Tool Chain/Changer:S arm? Basket? Fixed position chain? Random Pot Chain? Umbrella?
Tool Chain/Changer drive: Geneva wheel? Servo? AC Motor with Inverter? Does it have to be referenced? Does it have an air cylinder? Prox Switches for in/out/up/down/home/set of switches for BCD of position. Encoder?
Spindle: External orientation unit? Servo Driven with Orientation? AC motor with VFD? External Encoder? Shot pin for orient? Clamp/Unclamp end of stroke sensor, analog sensor for clamp with tool/without tool/unclamped/overstroke?
Lube: End of line pressure switch? Supply unit pressure switch?
Motor starters/breakers/fuses: monitored?
Estops: single channel monitored/ dual channel single monitor, dual channel dual monitor?
Door switches?
External operator switches? (key switches, auxiliary push buttons?)

Do you have an electrical design for the build? You have quite a bit of IO but without knowing what, and how you want to control it I can't give any real feedback.

From my experience with building you always will think of things you need extra IO for.

[gbowne1]

Not sure on the direction to go as far as servos. Still need to pick out the servos. I'm not sure what amplifiers the 16 will handle. The pictures I have seen of 16s and 18s all have the A06b 6079 h10* type.

Tool changer is an arm mounted carousel with a Geneva wheel. A arm comes down and chanes the tool at the same time it grabs the tool from the spindle. After the spindle stops and oriental the aligned with the drive dogs

The spindle is a servo powered CAT40. It doesn't spin over 10k rpm so its belt driven and has its own servo amplifier. Again have not chosen the

I do have a M19 orient available to me.

The lube unit is from Bijur. It's a CESG-03 2L type.

I understand that the limit switches are NO/NC with grounds. I picked several OMRON WCLA2-2 switches but couldn't figure out how and where to wire them.

There is a FANUC North America operator panel which has all of the operator switches. emergency stop is just a single unit on the operator panel with the MPG unit. All of the keys are lighted. This is a panel designed to work with the series 15 and also 16.

I've planned for a handheld pendant MPG too.

I can provide pics of whatever you need to see.

No there's no electrical drawings. the mtb delivered the machines without control. They did not want to deal with the selection or intallation of the control. They left that up to me.

[codyst]

The NA OP panel gets configured in the PMC as a piece of IO hardware(so you know that particular panel is no longer available as new, not sure about replacement parts). Most MTB's configure this in the upper word addresses (ie X100 etc). Once it is configured input wise, the output should match. For example, if it is configured that Auto Mode is X100.0, Y100.0 should be the status lamp. Also note that until a PMC program is loaded the OP panel is dumb. If you press Auto, the X bit will change state, but the Y is not going to update until the logic tells it that mode is selected.

As for your hardwire configuration (estops, limit switches, and such), there are only a few reserved addresses in the Fanuc PMC, however the programmer doesn't necessarily have to conform to those. For instance, X8.4 is usually the monitor bit for an ESTOP. If you wired the monitor bit to X8.5, X10.2, or even X55.3 it will still perform correctly, as long as it is programmed correctly.

For your axis setup, if you go Absolute, you don't have to wire in any limit switches. You can set up software limits that once you reach them will stop the machine from going any further. Again though, these are only as safe as you make them. If you set absolute zero in an area where it will let you travel mechanically past your software limits, while the machine thinks you are still in the constraints of the software, obviously it will crash. The same thing goes for tool changing, you can set software position switches that turn on bits in the logic that tell it that it's in a safe position to unclamp the spindle and change tools, when it may only be a few inches away from the table.

The limit switches have their drawbacks as well. Sticky plungers can cause it to "home" pretty far away from home. If I use limit switches I prefer to go with Euchner multi input switches for the simple fact that *usually* you don't get two or three sticky switches at once.

As far as landing them in the cabinet, what input do you want them to be?

For your tool changer since it also has an S-Arm it will be a random access setup. Which means that you need a way to track what tool is where during running (usually through a PMC data table) and also a way to mark reference on the wheel, so that if you jog it, or power off the machine it will remember where it was at that point.

Is there any type of mounting location for prox switches, or for an encoder on the wheel to track where it is at?

How many tools can the carousel hold?

I'm in Georgia for a training class right now, but will be back in my office on Tuesday. I'm going to send you a software copy of the configuration manual so you can see how the rack layout (PSU, CPU, Spindle, Servo) should be terminated. I also should have a servo manual that should get you started on servo/amp selection.

[gbowne1]

For your axis setup, if you go Absolute, you don't have to wire in any limit switches. You can set up software limits that once you reach them will stop the machine from going any further. Again though, these are only as safe as you make them. If you set absolute zero in an area where it will let you travel mechanically past your software limits, while the machine thinks you are still in the constraints of the software, obviously it will crash. The same thing goes for tool changing, you can set software position switches that turn on bits in the logic that tell it that it's in a safe position to unclamp the spindle and change tools, when it may only be a few inches away from the table.

Well, which is easier to implement? All of the CNC's i've encountered personally I have seen use limit switches

I do have a ton of FANUC manuals for the 16/18/21 as well as some servo manuals. Let me know which one you want me to view and which pages.

The ATC carousel holds 20-24 tools. It should look and work like this one:

There are no doors so no door switches needed.

[QUOTE]As far as landing them in the cabinet, what input do you want them to be? [/QUOTE

Not sure. How is this usually done?

There is also a small op panel on the mill to manual tool change (spindle unclamp) and also to jog the ATC carousel to/from the spindle. See photos.

The NA OP panel (not the i Series version) has all the same labels you would find on the standard FS0 Operator panel A02B-0084-C141/C161 ; A02B-0091-C141/C161 ; A02B-0092-C141/C161 (for the Series 0 Model C). The Panel also includes the eStop, MPG, On/Off, Program Protect, % overrides, etc.

The Omron switches I have are the lever type with a roller rocker. Pic Attached.

After I finish the 16, I have 7 other machines to create the control for.

[codyst]

Ok, from looking at your posts on "the other CNC" site, I need some more clarification on your hardware setup.

Basically a picture of the main rack, CPU, PSU, Amps, and all of your OP panels.

Also a build date from the CPU. Should be a number like E91.....underneath the A0....number.

[codyst]

A picture of the machine would be nice too if it can be provided.

[gbowne1]

All 8 machines are basically the same. They are all bed mill type I'm so anxious to finish all 8 controls. There is a couple of machines that are slightly different especially the ATC.

Right now the cabinet I have for the 16 is completely empty. I still have to get the cutouts for the panels lasered out. I haven't yet installed any of the components yet. Will as soon as I get the door back from the laser. It's like the one I attached. A pic of.

I'm building the following controls:

10TF (has the ACP CPU and its memory board)
0T Model C
0M Model C
15M Model A
16M Model B
6M Model B level 2 (has the PC-B board)
18iM Model A
11M (did a thread here a while back on this but not sure what model it is)

the only one is basically finished is the 15M. Ladder and all. I have the parts to make it a 150 model A if I wanted to. I also have all of the optional boards too.

I'm plenty confused about the 6M build. as there appears to be 16 different versions between the mill and lathe version as well as the Gen Numeric Versions of both there seems to be 4 different 9" CRT/MDI units of the 4 different major models.

For the 16 I can send you lots of pics on all the boards, modules on the boards, list of all the part numbers with the / revision. But basically I have the complete set of all the major modules and boards. I bought the large 6 slot 16MB backplane chassis. I heard there's a bigger one.

The 0M and 0T I have both the full keyboard and the small keyboard CRT/MDI units and
their matching FS0C op. Panel. Have a few if the boards, no backplane but have the PSU.

[gbowne1]

Whoa Dual post.. can a admin delete the 2nd copy?

Well, I will try and gather a few photos for the moment. I still have work to do in the shop so it's gonna take a bit of time to get all the photos up. I've been busy in the shop working so it's been kind of hard to get pics of what's there but I will try here.

Well one of the pics shows the ideal layout of the 16M cabinet. It's the pic marked 147688T.jpg

I just received some A06B-6079's that I may use with their supply, A06B-6077took a pic of those they have the cables with them.

My friend Ed did the 15M CNC. Took a pic of him working on it. It's on their site. He was testing the boards and amplifiers and doing the ladder. I have the 14" Color CRT/MDI for the 15, but he had a 9" and was using that to test. See the CNC with ed pic.

Aparently the A16B-3200-0190 is the 16 C model CPU. So I dug out another CPU board.. A16B-3200-0010 and 0110. Uses some of the same modules. I have a few of these boards to try out.

I will try to get pics of the machine tomorrow.

Need a list of the boards I have?

[Stevo]

Well Greg I really have no value to add to this thread but I do have to say that it has been educational reading your threads and posts here and at the other forums. Now that I have seen some good pics and great narratives all I have to say is "kudos" to you and how well you have done with your builds.

Stevo

[gbowne1]

Well, thank you Stevo! I always appreciate your comments. I always try to share whatever little knowledge I've learned. Well, I have read just about every archived post here (and on the other forums) and kept notes which has helped me learn CNC from the very beginning. I alwas also tr

I am going to try putting up a flickr or photobucket page of albums of all of my builds and projects, machinery and such. I do have a website for my machine shop too which does have some photos. I've always tried to add whatever photos I can and I will try to add more. Keep in mind I work 8 to 16 hours a day so its not often easy to grab a camera and shoot pics especially with a machining project in the way. But I just got a brand new camera and will do better this year.

Well the photos you see here especially in the last post with the gray cabinet FANUC with the 0P CRT/MDI and the black operator panel. That 0P control replaced a 6M with the punch sofware on an Amada Pega 344 that I own. This replaced the Strippit machine I owned. This is about the only control I did have not much involvement with other than the selection of parts and boards. The black operator panel has been replaced with a standard FS0C full keyboard operator panel, only thing is I had to source a Turret Press keysheet membrane overlay with the help of Amada.

There's 7 other cabinets just like the one pictured with the black FANUC label above the CRT/MDI in the last post. One of them houses my Series 15M Model A with the big 14" color CRT/MDI. Still have to get a few more doors lasered out for attaching the CRT/MDI's and operator panels.

I've had a few FANUC guys comment about the quality of my control builds and the machinery. One guy said he didn't think he could have done it better himself, while he was adding some options to my control.

Ed is a guy I met here in WA, he is a master machinist, and a FANUC programmer, FANUC 90/30 expert (as well as some other PLC's), and a professional ladder techician and has been in the business more years than I been alive. Unforuneately he moved last year to the midwest/central USA so I no longer have local access to his expertise, and so often I need someone that can provide hands on assistance. I would have to ship or mail pretty much everything to him to work on. So I need to find someone in the western US or WA who can help me out with the hands on stuff.

Ed has so often gotten me out of programming jams. I'm still learning programming

I try to document everything. I went to a local printing and graphics company and had them make me a complete set of manuals for the machinery as well as the diagrams, shematics, parts lists etc.

I know a lot of people think I must collect these old FANUC control, and perhaps I do, but what I really do is mate old controls to new brand new machinery.

Without you all, and Ed too of course I wouldn't have been able to get this far.

My worst problems in all my builds since the 15M was completed have been the I/O but I have tried to follow what was done with the 15M.

Ty for deleting the other posts codyst.

I do have a picture of the Yellow FANUC sticker on the 16M chassis I used see some more attached photos of that for you, codyst. I tried to get information on this from FANUC but they never sent me any info.

Oh yeah as a cool side note.. one of the shipments I got from an auction came with a FANUC Industrial PLC, the HMI and 30 boxes of modules.

[codyst]

I'm still out of town. I came back from a training class, and got sent out on service immediately.

I'll send you what info I can once I get back to my desk. Crossing my fingers that it happens on Monday.

[gbowne1]

I have a bunch of photos to upload so very soon I will post a Flickr album so you can see all my pics of all my stuff.

Thank you for all your help Cody and Stevo.

[gbowne1]

I do not have any of the 6MB manuals. Sorry.

[codyst]

I didn't forget about you Greg. I haven't been back to the office yet. In the meantime PM your email address and I'll get the manuals I promised you asap.

[gbowne1]

Thanks for all your help Cody. take your time. Meanwhile I've been working on some projects and getting some machining done.

Remember I still have servos and amplifiers to choose.

Two of the cabinet doors went out to have the cutouts made for the CRT/MDI and the operator panels per the dimensions given in the manuals.

Will pm my address.

[gbowne1]

Not much progress but have been trying to sort out the 6079 amplifiers. But i changed the CPU board.

[gbowne1]

What's the memory limit on the B model? 2MB?

I have available the following CPU boards:

A16B-3200-0170 FS16B
A16B-3200-0190 FS16C (also FS160C? aka A16B-0222-Bxxx)
A16B-3230-0150 FS
A16B-3200-0110 FS16B
A16B-3200-0010

Greg